I want to introduce you to a dear friend of mine: Andy. He is a junior at a local state college and is studying psychology. He is a rock star of a college student and a passionate pursuer of truth. We were introduced last October by a mutual friend. Andy had been wading through issues of faith for sometime alone and needed to talk through some times.
Well, for the past five months or so boy have we talked!
The highlight of my week is sitting down with Andy, sometimes for 5 or 6 hours, and talking about life, but especially theology and wrestling with our questions and challenging status quo Christianity and repainting an alternative following of the Person and Way of Jesus. His questions are always so probing and his thoughts always gritty, authentic, personal and provocative. It’s a true joy to know him and to walk with him through this thing called life.
Below is an email exchange we recently had, followed up with a GoogleChat. I think it’s a good example of what typically occurs between us and I thought I would post it (with his permission), because maybe it will help someone down the road…
enjoy!
Andy email:
I listened to an interview of Dr. Bart Ehrman, done by NPR, for Galen’s class. He explains in the interview why the existence of an omnibenevolent, omnipotent God cannot be reconciled with the reality of purposeless suffering in our world. But YHWH does not ask us to explain why there is suffering in our world. When He could have probably given Job an answer if He had wanted (for He is God and His intellect, if we can even categorize God on human terms, is infinitely beyond ours), He instead keeps us wondering. So then, this must be what we are to do—wonder. And on top of that, let us ask ourselves: why are we looking at this question from an egocentric human perspective? From that position, we will obviously doubt the existence of a loving, all-powerful God within the context of our suffering world. Instead, let us look at this issue from God’s perspective. Not only did He create us in the first place; He also came to be with us and help us through this struggle, then He died for us. From that point of view, the problem of pain becomes alleviated and we revert to simply dealing through it with Jesus at our side.
(Jeremy, please let me know anything you have to add.)
My reply:
YES! right on man…and that’s the key: “He create us in the first place; He also came to be with us and help us through this struggle, then He died for us.” Our Creator actually Tabernacled (dwealt) with his people in Egypt, carried them out of Egypt through Exodus, brought them INTO wandering in the wilderness, but STILL was with and (partially) made His dwealing among them (through the tabernacle). You should go read Hebrews 4:14-16. Isn’t it amazing that God understands and sympathizes with our weakness and suffering? What god does that? What god is able to understand intimately what humans go through other than Jesus, who Tabernacled (dwealt) among humans and experienced the fullness of the human experience? Wow, thats a though: Jesus/God intimately sat in the fulness of the human experience and went to the very ends of that (oftentimes) shitty experience by experiencing the cross…
anyway great thoughts Andy; so good to see you wrestling and seeing growth 🙂
-jeremy
Andy’s Reply
Thanks a TON for taking the time to write a response. These questions keep coming up – and right now I have two (but if you don’t have a response or don’t want to respond I definitely understand – we can talk about these anytime):
1) If a girlis born into a family of the faith (with this theology we have been talking about for a while now) but hasn’t ever experienced the Cross and Resurrection at a deep level because she has never truly felt a need for Jesus, is there still a problem with her trying to defend the faith? I guess my question is: What’s the point of defending the faith if it is about preserving a worldview moreso than it is about defending Jesus because Jesus is our only hope?
2) If humans grow even more by confronting the inevitability of their death, does a belief in our continued existence then hinder our growth?
me: hey yo
Andy: wassabe
how u?
me: good man
great email!
really inisghtful bro
Andy: thanks
Ehrman is supposedly one of those big writers (NY Times best-seller, etc)
me: oh yeah
he’s interesting
Andy: listening to his interview, he seems pretty humble – and i appreciate that
did you listen?
or do you already know?
me: hes a textual critic of early christianity
ummm
I read a profile piece on him in the washington post a few years ago when one of his big books came out
he has a bone to pick with traditional christianity
he grew up on fundi christianity and has walked away from all of that…and more
Andy: yeah
i don’t understand why they think they’re right
me: apparently he considers himself an agnostic
Andy: like, if both sides, each looking at the archeology and history, STILL disagree, somebody is just being narrow minded
me: yeah
Andy: and i understand why most people assume the christian scholars are wrong
me: i’m watching the davinci code right now
interesting stuff
Andy: i loved that book
i sent two other questions if you want to look at em
me: yeah I loved it too
the book and the movie
i’m reading now
good point on number 1
and I’d agree
defending the Faith (capital F) isnt the point
Faith (capital f) isnt the point…the object to which that faith is PLACED and INVESTED and RESTED UPON is the point
re: number 2
me: why do you think human growth is dependant upon an awareness of death?
and is question 1 a personal one?
Andy: to answer your 2nd Q, no
what i mean is, i’m not worried that by defending the faith I am merely defending my worldview
me: ohno
I meant more for familu or something
Andy: oh
me: i dont think you’re doing that ourself
yourself
Andy: no, i know my family has always merely defended the worldview
me: lol
ok
Andy: i don’t think they’ve ever struggled with existence
any of em
but about #2
Andy: developmental psychologists, christian and non-religious alike, agree that a confrontation with the inevitability of death is a paradox that must be dealt with in order to truly grow
me: “truly”?
i can understand how that would be important…
and I think the Scriptures certainly point to death as a sobering reminder of our finitude
and our response to that finitude while we are living our lives right now
me: Jesus addresses this somewhat in the Kingdom Manifesto
“dont store up for yourselves treasures on earth…
obviously Ecclesiastes is an entire treatis on life and death and the paradox of making meaning in the face of death
Andy: so how do we reconcile those two things? by believing in a continued, eternal existence while also realizing we will all die?
me: repentance of sin that leads to death and trust in Jesus who provides resurrection
the confrontation of our own complicity in Death through our rebellion through repenting of the daily acts that reinforce Death
and “believing” (remember we talked about that word: pisteuo) in Jesus for the hope of resurrection and defeat of death and “restoration of all things”
me: thoughts?
and growth cultivated through our life in christ in anticipation of resurrection…
maybe?
these are just sorta coming to me…your deep, proving questions are forcing me to sorta think through this right now like ALWAYS!!! which i love hehe
Andy: can you please copy and paste the last few things you said in this conversation
DANGIT
i lost what i was going to say..i’ll get it back
…if you send me our convo
me: lol
ok
Andy: through email
me: and growth cultivated through our life in christ in anticipation of resurrection…
maybe?
these are just sorta coming to me…your deep, proving questions are forcing me to sorta think through this right now like ALWAYS!!! which i love hehe
Andy: oh wow thanks
me: repentance of sin that leads to death and trust in Jesus who provides resurrection
the confrontation of our own complicity in Death through our rebellion through repenting of the daily acts that reinforce Death
and “believing” (remember we talked about that word: pisteuo) in Jesus for the hope of resurrection and defeat of death and “restoration of all things”
Andy: anyways..here is what i was going to say…(it may take a few minutes…)
me: where is it damnit
Andy: HAHA
one sec
it is a long sentence
the father of all run-ons
me: im eager
Andy: wait
the father?
that didn’t make much sense
Andy: so instead of holding to one extreme (the first being the classic Christian approach of simply using a belief in the afterlife as an escape from confrontation with the frightening reality of death, the second being the standard atheistic existentialist approach of constantly confronting this inevitable reality of death and never having hope in anything but what humans can do), can we find a psychologically healthy middle-ground in the following approach: putting one’s hope in Jesus, in the resurrection, once one finally experiences that existential anxiety?
is this a psychologically healthy approach to existential anxiety?
i wonder what Rollo May, Viktor Frankl, and Irving Yalom would say?
me: I LOVED the first part
I think you TOTALLY got the two extremes…and now i guess it’s figuring out the third way
hmmm
and maybe it isnt about the existential anxiety, but confronting the sin in our lives that leads to death in the first place
its one thing to moan over death
its entirely different thing to moan over our personal vandalism of shalom that leads to death in the first place
WHICH is required before we can pursue the second piece: life with Jesus and the hope of resurrection
Andy: wow
that’s awesome....
