This a running account and commentary of the Grand Valley State University’s LGBT Center event “Religion and Homophobia: Spiritual Violence in our Community” that I promised to live blog. It started at 7pm, so later entries are at the bottom with the most recent action at the top.

Panel members include:
– Dr. John Corvino, Wayne State University professor, author and lecturer;
– Dr. Milt Ford, director of Grand Valleys LGBT Resource Center;
– Judith Snow, Grand Rapids area forensic therapist and author;
– Doug Van Doren, pastor of Plymouth Congregational United Church of Christ;
– Josh Sleutel, GVSU student, previous reparative therapy patient.

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE PANEL LEAVE THEM IN THE COMMENT SECTION.

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9:25– ALL DONE….that was fun and informative.

9:24-Question: The day I decided to come out was the day dad retired as Lutheran minister. Why do some pastors pick and choose some verses and not others to fit own agenda.

Van Doren–All selective literalists. One does come at the Scripture wiht particular perspectives. One needs to be honest with ones issues and the issues of the Scirpture. Certain parts seem seized on that issue and its largely political in and out of the church. It works. Need to be clear that the people are the ones that get the attention and area anti-gay are not the majority of the church opinion.

9:20-Josh, what brough you all the way around to face the issue, that reparative isnt working and to accept the real you?

Josh–Nothing specifically that convinced it was OK to be gay. A long journey of exploration and questioning what Christianity has said about being gay and realizing orientation not changing him at all.

9:17-Talk about discrimination you felt on campus. How has the religious/Christian organizations have affected you?

Josh–Personally only experienced inclusion. Impressed with GVSU and how they have created space for young gay people.

Ford–No discrimination of group or individual on campus. Was excited about a dialogue among the Christian community and LGBT community for dialogue and udnerstanding, which has slowed. Would encourage that dialogue

9:13-How do we break down gay stereotypes in the Christian community?

Van Doren–Tell the truth, engage different groups, honor people where they are, tell your story. But in the Christian community we should not use the Bible as a club nor a particular narrow perspective on a few verses. Doesnt back down from strong Christian faith but is still open. No place in Scripture where love is condemned. “Love wins” as he says

Van Doren–”Evangelistic Imperialism” other faith groups need to accept and appreciate diversity on all levels. I wish we were not so narrow that we have a lot to learn from other faiths.

9:00–What is the psychological state of those who are doing these programs?

Snow is saying that there is a high degree of narcissism among those who want to convert and repair. It is not healthy, poor boundaries.

Ford–Where is the mindset coming from…the best intensions of a respect for who people are or what we want people to be?

Van Doren–”So which is it that you are so unsure about, your sexuality or your faith?” When we are secure in those places in our lives we dont need to whole world to confirm our beliefs and identities. (WOW!)

Josh–Had a not so bad in reparative therapy are not loonies but rational peoples and respect the healthy of their clients. But they are convinced that they are right. Doesn’t think the man who was his therapist had malicious intent….

The LWO guy (Dr. Brown) wondered why no one from the other side was allowed to be on the table. Good point, except he continued to hold the floor and bager the point. The guy needs to sit down…to be honest not representing Christ well.

8:51-How should we the community respond to LWO in GRap

Josh—We do need to listen and encourage a dialogue. Lets listen to one another. Perhaps a Christian person does care about someone because of their belief system…lets listen and not demonize.

Van Doren—Clearly we can say THAT PERSPECTIVE IS NOT NORMATIVE. Saying that they do not speak for all of us or all the Church…they are in a small minority. Need to state our point and be kind, but speak truth and be truth.

*THis is a curious comment…while the praxis of FOF and Exodus may be a minority, the doxy certainly isnt historically. I’m curious how he can say the theological perspective of the “religious right” is in the minority, when historically the perspective of such perspectives of Van Doren has never been a majority view.

8:39-For Judith–How can you have an agenda and be a therapist that is agenda driven? (basically saying how does the ex-gay min operate under they guise of psychotherapy…)

Judith—what matters is helping the client to find their own truth. unforuntately there isn’t a body governing the practice and therapy.

8:36-A guy who is a speaker at LOVE WON OUT–critically important to listen to one another…and appeal to tolerance and inclusion. The presenter has presented an EXTREME caricature of the Christian ex-gay community in the same way Christians have also caricatured the gay movement. (true)

Why are you not tolerant for those who’ve changed and said changed. Why not accepted by those who say people’ have changed? (good question)

Besen—says not caricatured. Asking they be honest and

Josh—there is a divisive language for people who want to be gay and christian, so we need to not bicker back and forth and paint the caricature. We need to have a dialogue where people are mutually listenting without painting a false pciture of one another. (also GOOD!)

8:31-My friend JOSH!!!! Found self not working out how he came to be gay or experience with rep. therapy, but focused on a fear that the panel would invite people to attack him. Experience is valuable but that this culture we are in does not allow gay people, esp. in the church, to be fully who they are, based on this culture of oppression. Has this internalized fear based on his experience in the church and working out being gay and a Christian.

Now Q&A time.

8:29-Ford—He wants to affirm and help people be who they are. Now quoting the Hymn, JUST AS I AM…He has learned as who he really is, just as he really is. he wants to help people live as they are authentically.

Corvino—Doesnt have a problem with LOVE ONE OUT people discussing the truth of their lives, and has a problem with ex-gay ministries from distorting the stories of HIS life by painting a false pict of the gay lifestyle that needs to be gotten out of. Prob is the with distorition of science and the lies. The event is about people telling their stories. Important to tell our stories so we can get a clear and accurate pict of our lives.

Snow—Wants to clear up the fact homosexuality is not a disease or broken piece. Mental health professional that is disturbed by the science and beliefs that are spun as truth…not truth. Has seen the harm done in sessions by LGBT people who have had their spiritual “resources polluted.”

8:25-Van Doren, a pastor—Tired of the violence the programs do. Tired of crying with the people who’ve been abused by the programs and churches. Tired of trying to heal some of the damage and spiritual violence done. Tired of the bad name they give to CHRISTIANS. The devil is the prince of lies…and he abounds in these ex-gays. The Church has been violent toward these folks. The message put out by churches that do these things is that they need to be repaired, that they are broken. With the high occurence of suicide its more than spiritual violence. TO parents it says they can think of them as people who need to be cured, rather than loved and accepted, esp. by parents. Amused by all the failed attempts in the programs. If they cant change them it doesnt seem that they cant practice…not fair to tell a teenage they cant have sex the rest of their life.

*HMMMM….I wonder how this man deals with the TEXT?! And I say that because there are clear Textual issues that compel these groups, as crazy and ignorant as the programs occur, to do their thing.

8:20-Now the panelists are coming to the table. See above. I wonder if they’ll address the biblical, theological, and textual issue surrounding the tension…

8:19-Ex-gay mins have sincere people…they play the part and want to believe that they’ve changed, that change is possible. But reality comes crashing down and they have to take the mask off and live authentically. Thats Freedom, he says. He’s now done with his presentation.

8:17-Showing some pretty disturbing recent quotations from Christian ex-gay ministry literature that is absolutely NOT rooted in the Text. Like encouraging parents who have artistic sons to wonder if they are homosexual. One thing that hit me is (from THESE quotations) is how non-Textual the perspectives and ‘reparative techniques’ are.

*He just addressed the used of exorcism…I’d say this is a pretty extreme example. Lots of layers going on here in this presentation. I’d say its mostly on the extreme…from both sides.

8:09-Now he’s breaking out nonsensical, fringe anti-gay quotations that ABSOLUTELY do not represent the mainstream Christian community that sees homosexuality differently than this community. COME ON MAN! Can you not make your point without resorting to scare tactics and fringe quotations?!

*To be honest I wonder how much of the content is a distortion of what really happens at gay reparative programs…I know the Church is ignorant and treats the issue poorly, but some of these accusations seem so over the top!

8:02-Explaining that FOF and religious right unlovingly say there is something wrong with people, they are broke, need to change, not happy gay, etc…So Christianity reinforces the negative perceptions of themselves. Say they are doing what they do because they love people and the world. When they talk to the flock their rhetoric is unloving: call homosexuality sexual bondage, brokenness, a distortion of the enemy, sexually brokenness, “God wants to heal sexual brokenness,” “fallen human beings that express sexual passion in broken ways,” “sexually broken” “God wants to set people free from any bondage”

*He had just said he respects people’s religious beliefs (in the context of them misusing and distoring scientific research…so just express beleifs rather than using bad science to prop up religious convictions), but then created a montage of video clips expressing that religious belief and called it “propaganda”

7:57-http://respectmyresearch.com/ explains how Focus on the Family misuses and distorts scientific research to make their case against homosexuality…or more importantly reparative therapy. He is saying they are distorting and misusing scientific research to back their religious convictions.

*Yeah this needs to stop!

7:54-At the heart of ex-gay min is bad science: had a bad rel with the opposite sex, have predispositions toward opposite sex characteristics…so they need to just hang with the guys or gals and PRAY. So abuse and bad homes is the claimes result of homosexuality.

*I would say this is a major problem with Christian/Church interaction with the issue that claims gay people have been sexually abused or alienated. This is ignorant, reckless pseudo-science that really needs to change…my experience is these people who spout this science are completely unconnected from people who deal with a gay identity.

7:48-Now saying co-founders Michael Busy and Gary Cooper of Exodus returned to gay lives, left their wives and had a committment ceremony. Rattling off more leaders who’ve failed after they said they have changed. Now wondering what is meant by change: questions whether people can suppress and change ‘who they are’ APA, AMA, etc say attempts to change is unhealthy and leads to an unhealthy life.

Alan Chambers says Exodus cannot change people…cannot liberate people. On Montel Chambers backtracking on the word CHANGE…Berens says that ex-gay mins say God changes people…and when they dont change people blame God, and internalize the fact they didnt change, become liberated…there must be some reason God is angry with them.

7:39-Now watching very emotional vids of ex-gay people who went through reparative therapy and the affects of the church on gay people…and the damage done to trying to change people to be who they aren’t. A person on vid who says ex-gay efforts are harmful and ineffective….All this seems a bit disingenuous to me, to be frank.

It is also harmful to women and families, because the ex-gay ministries encourage them to marry to heal and live a straight life…and they cheated, walked out, etc…one woman felt used.

*While I understand how dangerous it is for such mins to encourage men to marry to heal without actually dealing with themselves…I find it hard to beleive the mins are entirely at fault for the behavior of individual men; and we dont have all the nuance of the issues.

7:33-5 Reasons why we should care: 1) Its a major industry bent on changing people; 2) very powerful in government and trying to pass laws that persecute and coerce lives; 3) organizations are trying to get literature in as many schools as possible; 4) worldwide campaign: globalization of gay-bashing that stoke persecution of gay people; 5) they harm real people.

*What i find interesting is the exact same reasons largely apply to the pro-gay agenday groups, too.

7:29-Telling the story of how ex-gay man and ex-gay proponent John Paulk was hitting on a friend of his. He was outed for the fraud he was. Using the story to claim reparative therapy doesnt work. Another man Michael Johnston who had claimed miraculous healing by God through prayer…who later gave a man AIDS under the pseudonym Shawn.

*Talking about “our opponents” and the “right-wing extremists.” Interesting language.

7:23–What he thinks is scary is that Cohen is one of the main repairers. He is still the go to guy for reparative treatment. Thats what passes as mainstream reparative therapy. 1998 things changed. Family Research Council and other anti-gay orgs launched a major ad campaign to help people realize people could change. The fire and brimestone of Fallwell wasnt working anymore. People were coming out as gay and religious right had to change: instead of appear condemning needed to appear as loving by trying to change them. *so apparently the rel. right has a massive political/powerful agenda….

7:18-Now a John Stewart clip on Wayne Beson. A medical diagnostic spoof on suffering from GAY. TED HAGGARD just showed. A basic spoof on the ex-gay movement. Pretty nonsensical really.

Dr. Richard Cohen talking about “this and this fits…this and this doesnt fit.” use your imagination 🙂

7:14-Wayne Besen introed and presenting first. ANYTHING BUT STRAIGHT is his book, TRUTH WINS OUT is his organization. Here because he remembers in HS crying about being gay and asking God to take his homosexuality away…he wanted more than anything not to be gay, and be accepted by world. Late HS sat parents down and came out. Mom said, NO, NO THAT CANT BE. His process of processing through with his parents was interupted by a tape GAY AND NOT HAPPY tape they found in the mall and gave to him, produced by an EXGAY MIN. Said parents taken advantage of by the min…and feels bad for the LWO people because the parents are looking in the wrong place for the answers. LWO is not the answer, its the problem.

7:06-Talking about LWO holding program on Sat and NOW’s protest of the program, accompanied by the mayor.

7:05-Starting…About 300-320 people. Multi-aged, but mostly older.

6:49–IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE PANEL LEAVE THEM IN THE COMMENT SECTION.

6:40-TEST 2…Starting in 20 min

5:52-TEST